“Seth material” search engine (Jane Roberts)

And who, I ask you, would listen? For in the miraculous spontaneity of the sun, there is a discipline that utterly escapes you—and a knowledge that is beyond any knowledge that we know. And in the spontaneous playing of the bees from flower to flower there is a discipline beyond any that you know, and the laws that follow their own knowledge—and joy that is beyond command. For the true discipline, you see, is found only in spontaneity. Spontaneity knows its own order, and in the spontaneous expression of each spirit—you find what you consider discipline—and there is no other.

Now I ask you—how far do you think a flower would get if, in the morning, it turned its face toward the sky and said, “I demand the sun?” “And now I need rain. So I demand the rain! And I need bees to come and take my pollen. So I demand the bees!” And who would it ask for these things? And it would say, our imaginary flower, “I demand discipline! I demand therefore the sun shall shine for a certain amount of hours; the rain shall pour for a certain amount of hours; and the bees shall come—bee A, C, D, E and F—and I shall accept no other bees to come. And I demand that, furthermore, that discipline operate and that the soil shall follow my command, but I do not allow the soil any spontaneity of its own—and I do not allow the sun any spontaneity of its own—and I do not agree that the sun knows what it is doing. I demand it follow my ideas of discipline!”

In the spontaneous working of your nervous system, what do we find? We see here the head of the Dean that rests upon his shoulders and the intellect that demands discipline. And yet all of this rests upon the spontaneous workings of the inner self and the nervous system of which the intellect knows little. And without that spontaneous discipline, there would be no ego to sit upon the shoulders and demand discipline.

Now. My Dean, the spontaneous self that you so fear is the self that speaks to Bega. Then it is not a self that you have to fear. You are highly confused as to the meaning of spontaneity and discipline. Now the seasons come each year as they have come for centuries upon your planet—and they come with a magnificent spontaneity and with a creativity that bursts upon the world. And yet they come in your system within a highly ritualized and disciplined manner. And spring does not come in December. And there is a merging of spontaneity and discipline—truly marvelous to behold. And you do not fear the coming of the seasons.

Your father seemed to be, earlier, highly disciplined. Ruburt did not see that the discipline was the result of terror, and was not true discipline. He saw both personalities as frozen, finally, and he thought: if spontaneity and discipline are both false roads, then where do I go? [...]

[...] When he tried on the other hand to act in a more reasoning and disciplined manner, when he became convinced of the necessity for discipline and this was in Florida, then he attempted to stifle all spontaneity.

The overly-disciplined self could not be hidden now. [...] The physical symptoms represented the conflict as the overly disciplined self again tried to take over the reins. [...]

[...] The cleavage between discipline and spontaneity had long existed; given the all-or-nothing attitude of the personality, there was bound to be a swing, a complete swing from one to the other until the personality learned to combine the two and become more thoroughly integrated.

[...] He is now plenty disciplined enough. His abilities will smother if he applies too much discipline.

[...] To protect your abilities both of you had to take certain steps, Ruburt by way of enforcing discipline, Joseph by way of enforcing isolation. Ruburt is secure, discipline is now a part of his framework. [...]

[...] He has used them well this time, to give himself added discipline, and this is all to the good. [...]

[...] There must be, with discipline, a passionate joyfulness and spontaneity.

Now discipline was somewhat overstressed from the beginning, with the psychic work. [...] In his adolescence he was told by many to slow down, to use discipline, and the old adages returned.

A psychic, he thought, should be calm, untouched by physical events, highly disciplined, rather than spontaneous, such as he was, and sensitive to inner moods, which he was. [...]

[...] He must then behave, he thought, in a measured, reasoned, quiet, calm and disciplined way: and to see that he did, he slowed down the motions the body could make. [...]

He has a natural inner discipline which can be counted upon when he leaves it alone. [...]

[...] Damned up, such sexuality still keeps trying for expression, and it is often men of habitual “sexual discipline” who suddenly break out in bouts of sexual promiscuity or violence.

In actuality, the combination of a philosophical stress upon discipline, physical and mental, with the belief in the sinful self, often brings about the most unfortunate human dilemmas. [...]

[...] Again, here you find that discipline, rather than free will, is stressed, so that the opportunity for choices is drastically reduced. [...]

Discipline then should not only be considered, as it is by some schools of thought, as a mere mental discipline over the muscles, or various portions of the body by the inner self, but indeed a discipline in terms of training of the ego by the inner self, so that the ego as a personality achieves a well-balanced relationship with the physical universe.

This discipline however should be followed rigorously only with a program of ego orientation, in which the ego tries to discipline itself in the most difficult manner, for this particular personality, toward freedom. [...]

[...] I also suggest, merely as a matter of discipline, that he contemplate his part in the universe, so that he senses an enlargement of self in which personal worries and obsessions will not loom so large.

[...] And I also most strongly suggest that three times a week in a very quiet, disciplined but positive manner, he makes it a point to express himself when any matters arise where he holds a diverse opinion from the one being presented.

[...] Thusly, Ruburt felt that there were contradictions between spontaneity and discipline, the intuitions and the intellect. Therefore he tried to be either spontaneous or disciplined, or intellectual or intuitive, but with the implied supposition that these were somehow opposing conditions, or opposing elements of behavior.

When you two make love in any manner, you are involved with a spontaneity and discipline, again, that literally cannot be consciously ascertained. [...] More than this, the body automatically, spontaneously responds to emotion, and yet in that spontaneous activity what inner discipline reigns.

The physical body runs itself spontaneously, and yet with an inner automatic discipline and order that is indeed almost impossible for you to understand.

[...] Now Ruburt once felt that he had to discipline his impulses, lest they spontaneously lead him where he felt his purposes, or safety, might be threatened. [...]

[...] The idea of discipline as you think of it comes into effect most generally when you try to impose a secondary kind of order over the primary one. I am not speaking here of discipline as punishment, but of discipline accepted by a person or a civilization in order to direct action along certain lines. Such disciplines usually exaggerate and intensify one kind of natural spontaneous order over another. [...]

[...] It is foolhardy to try and apply discipline, or secondary order, to a spontaneous creativity that automatically gives you the finest order that nature could ever provide. [...]

Ruburt has been in search of discipline. He was always in search of the discipline he lacked. [...] Well, now he has his discipline, but it has been overdone. [...]

Mark, you need discipline, but it is discipline that you will acquire in living. [...]

[...] I demand discipline and respect at my sessions, no matter what I said about Ruburt and discipline earlier. [...]

[...] And with the three of you we will need dedication and discipline.

The discipline, for Mark or for anyone else, is difficult to achieve, in that what is necessary is a passive discipline rather than an aggressive discipline. The passive discipline allows for a fuller perception. [...]

[...] However, discipline now becomes a necessity. The intuitions and the impulse behind your creativity must be disciplined, if the creativity is to come to fruition.

[...] What is needed is additional inner confidence, and even the development of inner discipline.

This passive discipline also allows inner data enough durability to be realized. [...]

[...] Ruburt is working with the nature of impulses, and old ideas about impulses, spontaneity and discipline rose to mind, for the family situation of your brother and his wife almost typifies the kind of situation that Ruburt was determined to avoid. And he thought, what was the entire affair, really, for it seemed to lack any kind of discipline. [...]

[...] Ruburt had used all kinds of discipline, you see, lest he fall back into the common ground from which it seemed most people came from.

He is in a period where he is trying to release impulses, but one look at that situation—momentarily, now—panicked him, so that he began to wonder if any discipline was not worthwhile to prevent what he considered that kind of intuitional and intellectual sloth.

[...] Ruburt’s impulses gave birth to his poetry, to his writing, and to the freedom of his intellect and the heavy-handed discipline has always been impeding.

Spontaneity has its own discipline. You do not need to enforce discipline upon it. You need not enforce discipline upon it. [...]

And the inner self that controls your breathing does not need you to consciously discipline it. And if you try to consciously discipline it then, indeed you can tamper with its beautiful, spontaneous order. [...]

[...] For in the miraculous spontaneity of the sun, there is discipline that utterly escapes you, and a knowledge beyond any that we know. And in the spontaneous playing of the bees from flower to flower, there is a discipline beyond any that you know, and laws that follow their own knowledge, and joy that is beyond command. For true discipline, you see, is found only in spontaneity. [...]

[...] We see here the head of ‘the Dean’ that rests upon his shoulders, and the intellect that demands discipline. [...] And without that spontaneous discipline, there would be no ego to sit upon the shoulders and demand discipline. [...]

[...] I demand that discipline operate, and that the soil shall follow my command. [...] I demand that all these things follow my ideas of discipline’?

[...] And yet they come within a highly ritualized and disciplined manner. [...] And there is a merging of spontaneity and discipline truly marvelous to behold. [...]

[...] You see, and I have said this again many times in class, spontaneity knows its own discipline. The body breathes beautifully in a highly disciplined manner and knows nothing of your idea of discipline. [...] Everything has its season, and yet there is no discipline imposed from without. Spontaneity has its own discipline and its own knowledge, and when you attempt to rule spontaneity with a heavy hand, then rigidity enters in and you destroy the fountain of inner knowledge and intuition and understanding and you distort the emotions that you have. [...]

[...] Such people will, however, tend toward a strongly disciplined life. Many of their health problems will deal with eruptions — interior ulcers, skin eruptions, or in very definite mental and emotional eruptions, and great outbursts of force and temper all the more noticeable because of the usual disciplined patterns of behavior.

[...] It is quite frequent for persons with those beliefs to discipline their bodies overmuch, take positions as police guards, or set themselves up in one way or another in control of their fellows.

[...] It is erroneous, therefore, to believe that spontaneity and discipline are mere opposites. Instead, true discipline is the result of true spontaneity.

Science itself often displays compulsive and ritualistic behavior, to the point of programming its own paths of reasoning, so that they cover safe ground, and steadfastly ignore the great inner forces of spontaneity that make science — or any discipline — possible. [...]

[...] He must learn to organize and command it, and your plane is one of the many where he gains practice and discipline in this respect. Otherwise you would have a willy-nilly chaotic arrangement, with the personality incapable of maintaining any discipline as far as his own chemical and electronic components were concerned.

There is, if anything, more order in the inner reality than in your camouflage world, and more, not less discipline is required. [...] The camouflage pattern is completely broken up, the disorganized personality is afloat and could slip into a state where disorientation would prevent return to your level, while ignorance and lack of discipline prevented entry onto another level. [...]

I was going to say that discipline is even more important in the use of the inner senses than you might think. It is true that focusing upon the inner reality at times requires a temporary lessening of outer focus, and this would sometimes give the appearance of letting go, but the inner concentration requires discipline and intent. [...]

[...] It takes a peculiar set of abilities and interests for such work to be even partially successful or even accepted by the personalities involved; and for many personalities it would be difficult to maintain discipline and balance, while allowing for the necessary freedom that is necessarily involved. [...]

[...] Ruburt usually pays it no mind, believing it in the past a part of discipline to ignore the innate independent childlike desire for treats or special attention.

[...] At this time the plan is excellent, to offset the tight discipline that Ruburt attempted to force upon all other elements of the personality. [...]

[...] He was constantly told to slow down, to use discipline, and this reinforced the fear that what he was, was fearful, powerful, evil, and best hidden.

[...] When the situations developed which we have discussed, setting off the old conflicts, again you see, then the discipline idea was short-circuited back to the old compulsive behavior, though in different form, and with the old religious connotation of self-denial. [...]

[...] He remembers his early lack of discipline in working matters, but he is well disciplined now. [...]

[...] He will learn shortly, and without any real difficulty, that while his new schedule will be, as it should be, followed with discipline, nevertheless he cannot expect a new idea every day.

[...] Also to him a note: even his adolescent, seemingly-undisciplined times were disciplined, giving notice of continuing ego strength, balanced and sometimes over-balanced by intuitional development, in that he never ceased writing from the day that he began.

[...] He so feared that he lacked discipline that he becomes too stern a keeper of his own inner fires.

I will go into our guest’s background more fully at another session, and also into the enthusiasm which is so refreshing and yet so in need of discipline. This enthusiasm has caused you difficulties in the past, and I will not be, I simply will not be, the means of allowing you to let it operate without using discipline and discretion.

[...] He is given to fervent allegiances, and often should listen to the dictates of inner discipline. [...]

When tests are conducted, and this will take a while, but when tests are conducted in laboratories, using the trance, the controlled and disciplined trance, as a tool and an instrument, then very quickly you will be able to delve beneath personal subconscious material to other layers.

[...] This is far from impossible, but it requires discipline and training, along with the freedom which more and more Ruburt is able to bring to these sessions.