1 result for (heading:"89 septemb 19 1964" AND stemmed:father)

TES3 Session 89 September 19, 1964 12/78 (15%) Louie Ida cruelty eloquence son
– The Early Sessions: Book 3 of The Seth Material
– Session 89 September 19, 1964 10:10 PM Saturday Unscheduled

[... 34 paragraphs ...]

Since I will not give a session simply to give a session, and because I will not let Ruburt parade me as part of his precious subconscious, I will indeed here speak for myself, but in terms that will help another and for the benefit of that other. And despite our anxious Ruburt’s furious attempts to block me, I will indeed say that the person who was once betrayed by the personality involved was the present father of the personality, and he knows it—

[... 1 paragraph ...]

—subconsciously, and subconsciously the father knows. And why else would he demand from a son that which no father has a right to demand? He, the father, subconsciously knew and remembered this betrayal, and he would see to it that the present personality paid, and paid in full.

I am not implying that the father consciously intends either unkindness nor revenge, any more than I am implying that Ruburt intended unkindness or revenge on Walter Zeh; yet was this not the result, and is it not the result here?

[... 1 paragraph ...]

He has taken at least as much as he gave, and there were sly and secret ways in which the father repaid him. Yet here we have further conflict, because indeed the present father loves the present son. It is not the son that he would wound. It is the man that son once was.

So, as the father pays back his old betrayer, he hurts the son without knowing why. He cannot understand his own cruelty toward him, or the acts which he is impelled to perform. Nor can the son, loving the father, understand either the father’s cruelty or his own sense of gratification received from the cruelties. He, with his remorseless conscience, welcomes the cruelties, for they make him feel as if he is doing penance, and for what?

For an offense that has been paid for in full. And each cruelty committed by the father hurts the father more, for he is bewildered by the unkindness of his own actions toward the son, toward whom his conscious feelings are indeed fraternal. And again—

[... 2 paragraphs ...]

One, he attempts to convince himself of something that is indeed a fact. He has nothing else to do penance for. By enduring the literally endless small cruelties he does needless penance, but at the same time he strikes back by causing the father hours of remorse. In all relationships these intertwining effects exert, many times, most unpleasant effects.

[... 1 paragraph ...]

(I believe this passage refers to the fact that Louie had returned to Rochester from California a few months ago. At the moment Louie is living with his parents, not being married, and is working in his father’s place of business. Louie had also remarked that his speech impediment had not bothered him as much while he lived in California, as it does currently.)

[... 14 paragraphs ...]

There is a subconscious domination of father over son, always an implied, always an insidious circle of reaction leading to reaction. It is not strictly necessary that the personality here involved change his environment drastically, if he can understand the circumstances that underlay the relationship between himself and the father.

If this is realized then the personality will not feel smothered. As it is, how can he dare express himself in the presence particularly of a man whom he feels he once betrayed? And when he speaks to him in syllables, he does not speak clearly. He does not owe the father any more than a normal filial devotion. He does not owe the father any more than that, and to seek the father’s pleasure superficially, or to try to please the father in fields where he has no interest, will not lead either to personal development or success, and will not help the father in any way.

[... 8 paragraphs ...]

His actual predicament is one where what he wishes, he feels will hurt others. And yet through living at home while helping the father, on the one hand, in the establishment, at the same time on unconscious levels by his very presence he says “I am not doing what I want to do, and you are to blame.”

None of this, or very little, is conscious. The love that does exist between father and son can best be maintained and nurtured when the son stands alone, and lets the father know that he has the strength to do so. For the sacrifices unconsciously asked by the father, the father regrets, and the sacrifices made by the son, the son regrets.

[... 4 paragraphs ...]

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