“Seth material” search engine (Jane Roberts)

Instead, as Ruburt supposed, I will reorganize that material somewhat, so that some of your questions are also answered. Give us a moment.

To some extent you all have characteristics that are similar, while of course there are differences. In one way or another, however, you have not accepted the traditional social roles. Neither Ann or Leonard married. You married, but not at the usual age—later. You did not have children. Leonard and Ann also have a certain stubborn independence. When they look at your relationship with Ruburt they still assure themselves that it is after all not the traditional marriage.

In Turkey you dealt with an order rather than a family—a tribal order, so to speak, with males predominating. It was of a religious and warlike nature, in which the sword predominated. Women had no part to play. Ruburt was the leader of such a group, and you were what could be considered his lieutenant, or closest at hand. The group was given to mystical practices, in which the dictums of Allah were followed—but also those dictums were enmeshed with some old Jewish practices and beliefs.

Ruburt was used to the unbridled use of power, and at least among the sect his word was law. Reincarnation was also part of the belief structure. It was considered a blight of the gods, for example, to ever return as a woman.

You were Ruburt’s younger brother at that time, and both of you engaged in many bloody religious battles. You were blunt men, yet highly emotional, living for some time near Constantinople, but ranging far, even to Afghanistan, and on several occasions meeting bands from Rome.

You were great riders, horses being wealth, and collectors of fine gold ornaments. Ruburt was just, as he understood justice. To some extent he felt it a comedown to be born as a woman (as Jane). He also played down physical abilities, for toward the end of that life he became hungry for knowledge, and wondered at his own unbridled use of power.

He accepted you as a mate and teacher, however, and put such weight upon your words because in that old context you were a male. You both decided to use power indirectly, however, to affect your civilization through thought rather than through combat. In early years Ruburt found it difficult even to contradict you, even while he insisted upon his own independence of mind, and upon his use of his abilities. At times, however, you refused to lead in this life when circumstances might have warranted a more active role at particular times, because in that previous life you would not buck Ruburt, and because you also were more cautious this time about the use of personal power.

This time those followers are provided with information you did not have then, and they are taught to be true to themselves. They are told not to be cruel or fanatical, not to die for the sword, or by the sword. Yet they look to you. Ruburt became overly cautious, however, and your own attitudes helped. To some extent you felt, both of you, that a woman, gifted, needed greater protection. She was not as dependable, nor should she really show her face in public—so to some extent, now, the symptoms took the place of the veil.

All of that occurred in the background in which you chose an artistic ability that did not fit into the accepted male role, and Ruburt possessed a drive that did not fit the feminine picture, either. You quite concurred with the attitudes involved. Each of you dislike fanatics because you were once so fanatical. Ruburt went to battle with all of his men, and only as he grew older did he begin to wonder at his own motives, or the beliefs that were the structure of his life.

Ruburt’s condition in late years would fluctuate. You would use it, the two of you, as a measuring yardstick: if he began to improve considerably enough, particularly a few years ago, you would instantly, Joseph, become negative and guarded. Instead of being thankful when he began to go out again, you became frightened, and felt that everyone noticed his condition. After all, the two of you rode horses at the head of the pack.

This time you have maintained your health equilibrium, and you have not become negative. Ruburt’s improvement has been steady, but guarded, as he watches for your attitude, and to make sure that it is indeed safe now.

To some extent, I do not want to overstate. You initiated the procedures years ago, and decided you would not be the one. Now Ruburt could have refused that role also. Nothing said that either of you had to accept it.

Ruburt’s condition has also served as a framework in which he is the opposite of the conquering hero. It is an attempt to play down his presence, to be the absent leader—and in this, again, you heartily concurred. You also played down your own leadership role, while of course maintaining it, and the two of you operate as a team now as you did then.

In that life women were expected to be decorative, and most of all compliant, so in his relationship to you, when Ruburt felt decorative or compliant, he felt you would have no use for him. You each decided to have no children— you, of course, as well as Ruburt. Your children are the people you influence, help, and guide.

In any case, in the context of this discussion, had you not married Ruburt, you would have remained single, or possibly married to a woman who also would not want children. You were both used to the idea of attaining knowledge and influencing minds. In the Turkish life that meant following Allah and the dictates of holy battle. Now you know that no wars are holy, only regrettable.

In this life Ruburt chose poverty as a background, a mother who was not physically fit, a broken family. You chose parents who in their way were culturally deprived, ignorant of fine music or literature, and temperamentally poles apart. Then you chose a prime ability, not overly valued by society. When the two of you took up together for the reasons given, you decided upon a further handicap, though you had not specifically chosen one.

You were the elder this time, where before you were the younger. Ruburt looked up to you in those days as once you looked up to him. There is no need for a handicap of any kind. You both also had from other existences strong drives toward privacy and secrecy. The television program you saw about monasteries and privacy to some extent applies here, for in the hurly-burly of medieval life there was no privacy for thought.

You both had existences in which you combined the traits of each in medieval Europe. Sacred manuscripts were often stolen from one monastery and taken to another, where they were exchanged for the goods of this world, and for sanctuary. Some of those experiences led you both to desire a certain privacy while remaining in the midst of a community, and here again Ruburt’s condition came into service, giving you a built-in reason for not going out into the world.

To some extent, then, the situation has served you both well for years. Ruburt finally became so depressed, however, about the symptoms that his work was involved—an intolerable situation, presenting an instant dilemma. Neither of you really miss not traveling, not going on tours, or not mixing with the world. You became embarrassed at Ruburt’s condition when others saw it, and you finally became alarmed when you wondered how much the body could put up with.

(11:30.) Ruburt became the spontaneous one to both of you, therefore the one who must use controls. You became the disciplined one to both of you, which meant of course that you also impeded your spontaneity. The mind cannot be fully used when it is used at the body’s expense. You have gone along with Ruburt’s improvements. You are beginning to actively encourage it. Your suggestion to Ruburt involving touch is highly important, and represents growing understanding on your part.

To some extent or another you each feel that the world is insane. With his literal mind Ruburt took protection against it, and found in your apartment and home what he hoped would be a safe sanctuary in monastic terms, where each of you could learn and grow. On purposes you both agreed. Carried to extremes, however, the condition became alarming. This is why improvements are occurring, and because you each are beginning to realize that there is a natural world out there for the world of nature to which both the soul and the body relate. Your protections have been against the social world, but in the extremes you end up losing an important part of the natural world as well.