“Seth material” search engine (Jane Roberts)

The individual involved is aware of very little as far as physical objects are concerned. There is, for example, a table in front of him. The table is real, it is physical. Under ordinary circumstances it could be seen and touched. Objects could be placed upon it; and yet, Doctor Instream, our entranced individual is not conscious of that table. In his state he is concentrating upon some object which we cannot see. Now, consider: we will attempt to prove the existence of this material table to this individual who is not aware of it. How, therefore, could we prove to him that this table exists, when he is not aware of it in any manner whatsoever? His attentions are focused elsewhere. For him the table does not exist. We have indeed a rather delightful dilemma; and yet, is this not what you require of me? I speak of “you” simply because I have come in contact with you. I recognize only too well your sympathy and your understanding. Nevertheless the situation in which you put me is exactly like the situation which I have only now described.

Now. In the dream state it would be impossible for the dreamer to prove the existence of the familiar street outside of his familiar door. His attention is momentarily directed toward a different sort of reality. The ordinary trees outside of his window do not exist for him. It would be highly difficult to ask a man while he dreamed to prove the physical reality of the bed in which he slept, or the bedside table which was at his head, or to prove the existence of the wooden floor upon which the bed rested. Highly difficult indeed, for such objects do not exist for our dreamer.

Therefore it is also highly difficult for me to prove my own existence to you, for you are not focused within my field of attention. You are focused within the physical universe. I will indeed go along with this endeavor. It is nevertheless a difficult one. I understand most thoroughly, my dear Doctor Instream; I know, again, with whom I am dealing. You, at this point in our acquaintanceship, have little to lose by being so kind to me, and so permissive and sympathetic in your attitude. I say this because we understand each other very well.

I can indeed give you, and quite easily, evidence of clairvoyance, and I will in future sessions. But my dear Doctor Instream, what will this prove? It will not prove my existence to those who will not accept it. It will simply be said that Ruburt is clairvoyant.

I will, and can, give you evidence of telepathy, and what will this prove? It will not prove my existence, not to those who will not accept it. They will say merely that Ruburt is clairvoyant, and Ruburt has telepathic powers. If I materialized in full sight of twenty good and weighty witnesses, what indeed would this prove to those who would not accept the proof?

It would prove nothing to them. They would indeed insist that twenty good and worthy witnesses were under the influence of suggestion.

Therefore what proofs can you require? And in all honesty’s sake, what proofs do you think that they will require? What good will it do if through Ruburt I literally shout from the rooftops, and raise my voice, and shout that I am indeed who and what I say I am. What will this prove?

Again, if I stood clear as day in the middle of a meeting room, with twenty fine and sturdy, respectable fuddy-duddies, what would this prove? They would swear that they were under the effects of suggestion. I will, I will for my own amusement, give you in the future many—not one but many—clairvoyant effects. Again, for my own amusement.

I myself have indeed long awaited some circumstances which we now can take advantage of for our own benefits. However, I am not mainly concerned with proving for you the fact of my own existence. (Strong voice.) Let us now be honest. Are you concerned with proving your existence to me? Hardly. You take it for granted that I am aware of your existence, and I assure you so I am. But neither am I concerned with proving my existence to you. I am however very interested in education. If I have to pull a few tricks out of the bag to get my ideas across, then so I shall.

I am concerned because I want the theoretical material to be widely distributed. I am not primarily concerned with giving effects or proofs of my existence. I know that I exist as you know that you exist. How would you feel if someone asked you to prove your existence? If you answer this question honestly, then you will see that I am far from being as irascible as it may appear. I bend over backward to understand. I bend over backward, and this is most difficult for me. (Strong.)

(Seth said again that he considered such effects childish, but that it would be a small sacrifice to make if it helped to get the material across. Again he dwelt upon the difficulty of proving immortality. No matter what he did, people would say it was trickery. He still maintained that he could offer proof that would be sufficient, in time. He repeated again that he could not play on Dr. Instream’s desire for immortality in order to arouse his interest in the material.